Comments for Eurovision and "Welcome" (to Lithuania) http://www.lithchat.com/joomla/ Fri, 18 May 2012 22:08:33 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.2 http://www.lithchat.com/joomla//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=2#pc_1 After watching the videos, I can see why LT United won the contest. inCulto did a very poor job with their live performance - it was bland and not exciting at all. LT United\\\'s energy easily overshadowed the fact that their song is weak.\r\nDid anyone really expect Lietuviai to vote against this \\\"rinktine/all-star\\\" group who at one time or another were (or still are)considered to be Lithuanian heroes in their own right?\r\nIf LT United had sung \\\"Welcome to Lithuania\\\", it would have won by an even more overwhelming margin than \\\"We are the Winners Did.\\\" Sun, 09 Apr 2006 21:45:20 +0100 http://www.lithchat.com/joomla//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=2#pc_2 You\'re definitely right that the [URL=http://youtube.com/watch?v=rCnNDmxJXhg]inCulto performance[/URL] was pretty weak. I\'m not particularly interested, though, in this article about [I]why[/I], precisely, LT United won--though I think the argument of \"mass psychology of sadomasochism\" is probably wrong. The more I listen to it, the catchier it becomes, and maybe that\'s enough, and I\'m sure that it got a pile of votes for being just an all-star affair. But I\'m interested in why \"Welcome\" was getting passed around in the diaspora and \"We Are the Winners\" was not. I\'m interested in what each song says about Lithuania--since I hope I demonstrated that they say radically different things. Would LT United have won with \"Welcome\"? Probably. Would they have thought to sing/write a song like that in the first place? I don\'t know--here\'s where inCulto\'s own cosmopolitanism makes their recording of \"Welcome\" so confusing. The marquee members of LT United all have strong international performance experience, and I wonder if that makes them better tuned in to what it is that Eurovision, or being pop ambassadors, tries to accomplish, so, again, \"Welcome\" gets slapped around once more. Sun, 09 Apr 2006 22:05:30 +0100 http://www.lithchat.com/joomla//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=2#pc_23 In my opinion,the video is popular because it draws off of Stereotypes and perhaps well known assumptions about certain fragments of Lithuanian society. You could draw off of many examples. ie.You could do a video of Panevezys(little chicago) and how it\'s the national mecca for organized crime and have all these crazy gangsters running with shaved heads and jogging suits,BMW\'s ect. At the end of the day,it would be entertainment off of a half-truth but it doesn\'t factually convey anything,just a small aspect of something. I saw the video and had alot of trouble taking any of it serious. It has almost a Southpark theme to it and again it seems like it works off of Southpark\'s premise. That it\'s partially truthful ,mostly nonsensical Mon, 30 Oct 2006 10:36:34 +0100 http://www.lithchat.com/joomla//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=2#pc_24 Yes, the video is cute and can be understood as just for fun--not to be taken seriously. That\'s your prerogative to understand it that way. But that doesn\'t deny the potential for a subtextual politics that is, in fact, quite different from the tone of the video you imagine. It\'s very strange to revisit this article since LT United was a splash at Eurovision and my helping with getting inCulto to come to the US. I really, really like inCulto a lot. They are certainly one of the, if not the, most interesting bands in Lithuania. I felt that when I wrote this article, and I feel it now. \"Welcome\" just strikes me as a very odd, yet marketable, hiccup. I\'m actually glad it\'s not on [i]PostSovPop[/i], since I would probably fast forward past it every time. Mon, 30 Oct 2006 11:21:02 +0100 http://www.lithchat.com/joomla//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=2#pc_25 Well I don\'t know if \"cute\" was the word I would suggest to describe the video. More inane or slightly stupid would be a better observation after seeing the video. As far as the politics behind such a video,one could probably come to numerous conclusions as to what the figurative/literal interpretations of what the band is trying to express.\"Welcome\" ,\"sextrade\" could be some sort of attempt to explain a national/european political perception or opinion. Who really knows?..(probably to ask the band what they were expressing) Again,it is probable that it is most likely some satire or parody. As far as the music scene goes in LT having some musical background myself and having some experiences with Lithuanian musicians one has to take into account the obvious reality of life as a musician there. Theoretically,it would be wonderful if musicians in Lithuania had rudimentary oportunities in forming musical expression as say someone might have in Europe or the U.S.but that simply isn\'t the case. There isn\'t a Juliard,Berklee college of music,ect or a long established eclectic music scene that young musicians can draw inspiration,artful expression and national tradition off of. The scene is very much evolving and in many cases in it\'s infancy. My own experience,I work with jazz musicians.I know alot of people look at jazz and see that it\'s maybe boring or don\'t like it(perhaps like classical music)but jazz is fundemental to creating ideas,expression and in many cases it\'s a stepping stone to other music. In Lithuania,there are many young musicians who simply didn\'t have the opportunity to listen and identify or be inspired by many well known western Jazz,Soul,R&B, traditional and modern blues. In many cases it\'s still a discovery.Particuliar with certain instruments like guitar,bass,keyboardists and drummers and percussionists. So basically,you have musicians that draw off of popular influences or what was historically conventional. So it\'s actually a very good thing if there is already a steady flow of new music. but fundementally speaking where does that put musical or expression in general?? In my opinion,it\'s still evolving Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:13:33 +0100 http://www.lithchat.com/joomla//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=2#pc_29 Rob, thanks for posting, but I don\'t fully understand your final comment. My point is simply that \"Welcome\" has a politics that, actually, subverts the \"welcoming\" tone of the song itself. Whether the band meant it or not, I think, doesn\'t really matter. I don\'t think I\'m overreading, since they\'re playing into certain nationalist fears. The irony is that, I think, the band would *not* actually support that kind of politics. It\'s just peculiar. Mon, 06 Nov 2006 10:50:32 +0100 http://www.lithchat.com/joomla//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=2#pc_31 Well I feel Moacir that the ability to fully express ones ideas musically has not quite reached the intellectual complexity that it might of in the west.Lithuanians are still exploring their actual identity and coming to terms with their history not to mention their eventual future and role in europe. Keep in mind expression in the soviet union was limited to say the least. I think with music (and this also goes with video/ media production to some extent)In a post-soviet world like Lithuania you have to realize maybe there isn\'t quite the exploration of national eclecticism. You\'re faced in many cases with the fear of the actual unknown future and the opinions of your own people and perhaps more local community(in this case Europe) I guess my general impression of the video was that the band was trying to express perhaps some wider message or maybe just some clever satire and for whatever reason some silly video resulted. One thing I notice with Lithuanian musicians (and this is most likely true for other former SSR musicians)is their impressive imitation and inspiration from mentors. The fact that they would see the genius from Bob Marley to Miles Davis to Charlie Chaplin(sometimes strangely combined exactly)If you watch some of these jazz musicians on LT television and see some of their expression and creativity.It\'s wildly crazy at the same time you see a craft developing. I think when you\'re inspired on many different levels and are trying to create an artistic style of your own ,you\'re not always going to hit the mark. I mean even successful commercial artists do this.They have a record or song now and then that bombs. That\'s why I felt the music scene and musical creativity and expression is evolving in Lithuania. It\'ll take time to move away from traditional/popular influences and inspirations and move towards something this uniquely Lithuanian over time. Mon, 06 Nov 2006 20:53:35 +0100 http://www.lithchat.com/joomla//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=2#pc_32 Hey, I dont know if you can say that this music is \"crappy\" and is being \"cocky\". I think that this song was intended to receive international attention, and it was meant as a joke. Lithuanians are not very quick to boast about their own country. In fact, for the year I lived in Lithuania, nearly everyone I met asked why I would go to a country like Lithuania. And why I saw anything good in that country. I think it is just the opposite of what was said. I think LT United did a good job of uniteing Lithuanians behind one song. Also, I don\'t think that you can really call any music crappy! Anyone who knows about putting on a big show, knows that the music is important, but even \"half-assed\" music sounds good if the artist has stage presence. For example, look at Alice Cooper. When he started, it was just him and a few friends, who could hardly play their instruments, but ended up really famous. Of course they got better, but their shows were never really about the music, it was a show. Before seeing LT United, i thought they werent that great, but when I was in their concert, and the music was blaring, and the crowd was going crazy, it made me realize how good they actually were. They put on a great show, and while they were up there, they looked to be having just as much fun, if not more, than the people in the audience. \"We are the Winners\" is simple, catchy song, which got people talking. Its easy to remember, even by people who do not speak the best english, and that is why so many people like the song. If you can have people singing your tune after hearing it once, you must be doing something right. Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:49:26 +0100 http://www.lithchat.com/joomla//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=2#pc_33 Dave, I mostly agree with your points--my opinon of both songs in this article greatly changed after seeing them \"live\"--over the internet. The spectacle of the stage performance adds a lot. Yet there\'s tons that stands on its merits as a musical artifact, without the need of the mediation of the stage. Perhaps it\'s a conscious nod to the performance aspect of Eurovision that both songs benefit from the spectacle. I still feel kind of bad about how critical I was of both songs in this article--I don\'t think that my reading of the video to \"Welcome\" is invalid, but I do understand its possible parodic value. The problem, though, with parody/satire is what you do when no one gets the joke. \"Welcome\" was definitely NOT understood as a satire here in the US--among the descendents of those who fled Lithuania after WWII, it\'s been a fetish, a rallying cry of nationalistic energy. It\'s kind of like how Reagan used \"Born in the U.S.A.\" as a campaign song. Fri, 17 Nov 2006 21:26:43 +0100 http://www.lithchat.com/joomla//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=2#pc_34 Thanks again for the comment. I understand the point better now. I\'m not sure that I agree that Lithuanian popular music lacks distinction--or that that\'s a function of, say, the history of soviet occupation or recent independence. Pop is supposed (I think) to be a universalizing genre, so that there isn\'t a decided national sense of what \"Lithuanian\"--as opposed to \"EU\"--pop is not so bad. I can\'t speak to jazz--I have one lithuanian jazz album, and it\'s ok, but not astonishingly inventive. I worry about the assertion that the artistic expression is not as \"complex\" as it is in the west--this sounds, to me, very patronising, and it\'s probably very false. For all the one-off crappy pop acts in Lithuania, I can name as many in the US. Popular music is both a commercial and an artistic enterprise--some groups (Skamp jumps immediately to mind) have managed to infuse an almost sickening thickness of complexity into their music. Someday I\'m going to listen to all of \"Skempinlige\" and decide if it\'s just an extended critique of commercialism, but not in a whiny, Pearl Jamy way... ...anyway, your point about mimicry is very well received, though I\'m not sure I agree. And if I do, then I don\'t know how specific it is to post-bloc expressivity. There\'s mimicry the world around. In closing, I\'m not as optimistic about a \"Lithuanian\" sound emerging (other than the still raw folksokas genre) as you are, but I also don\'t think that\'s at all bad. I\'m certainly not interested in niche pop--niche from more than being in lithuanian, that is. Fri, 17 Nov 2006 21:37:23 +0100 http://www.lithchat.com/joomla//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=2#pc_35 Well,I guess you could look at a statement like \"not as complex\" as patronising but if you are looking at it from the standpoint of what type of musical expression was allowed under the soviet union I feel it\'s probably more of an observation. I know with jazz one of the most notable figures was a Bulgarian dissident named Michol Leviev http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milcho_Leviev He was probably of the few musicians to work in the west and develop his career.The fact,that alot of jazz out of the soviet union and some of post years was not terribly astonishing is also not of much surprise.Again,this could be interpreted as patronizing.From my experience,about what I know about jazz I don\'t feel it\'s negative to acknowlege that the same resources weren\'t available in SU as they were in the west.They\'re simply just wasn\'t this free flow of information and ideas. Despite all this,I still feel that there are alot of good jazz musicians in Lithuania. True,pop music is universal but it is also very local in some cases. Lithuania is no exception to any other country,region,city.ect. After all,you do have bands like Rush,U2,Bjork,Police,Clash,ect..ect..that can be very local at the same time universal. I think some of it has to do with songwriting itself.Songwriting progresses as musicians mature over the spanse of their careers. I remember reading an article about Juliana Hatfield and how she felt her ability to express herself through her lyrics had matured and evolved as she became older.She felt she blurted out lyrics like a \"idiot suvant\" when she was younger. 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